Jenna Ortega (00:00):Anytime I did a scene with Joanna Lumley, and then Catherine Zeta-Jones, I was in awe, just so impressed. Truly, truly such masters at what they do. Those were always some of my favorite days on set.

Caitlin Reilly (00:16):Hello, my little vipers. I am Caitlin Reilly, and this is the Wednesday Season Two Official Woecast. Over the next eight episodes, we'll be looking back at the most chaotic moments from the show and chatting with the geniuses, the actual geniuses, who made it happen.

Joy Sunday (00:35): Ajax is just lending his hand, and that really means a lot in Bianca's world.

[TITLE CARD]

Caitlin Reilly (00:41):First up on the Woecast, we've got Jenna Ortega here to spill her psychic vision for season two. We'll also be talking with Al Gough and Miles Millar, the twisted minds behind the show. And along the way, our producer, Thing, hey, buddy, he's going to help me make sure everyone can be seen and heard.

(00:58): I am now joined by Wednesday Addams herself, she needs no introduction, but we'll give her one anyway.

Jenna Ortega (01:11): Thanks.

Caitlin Reilly (01:11): Thank you for joining us, Jenna Ortega.

Jenna Ortega (01:13): Yeah. Hey, guys. How are you doing?

Caitlin Reilly (01:15): So last season, you did so much preparation for Wednesday, you were fencing, you learned how to play the cello, you learned how to speak German.

Wednesday Addams (01:23): [foreign language 00:01:25]

Caitlin Reilly (01:28): How did you get back into Wednesday's headspace for this season?

Jenna Ortega (01:31): I feel like I fell into her quite naturally. A few years had passed since the show had come out, but sometimes when you do a character for so long, because we were shooting the first season for eight months or something like that, so she was very familiar to me. And also, when you're working in that headspace and you're working on scripts that have that sort of dark sense of humor and certain kind of cadence and rhythm and humor, I do feel as though I've taken some of those traits with me just because I was practicing them all the time. And sometimes, outside of your life when you're not working, you're thinking about, how can I get into that deeper mindset? So I don't know, I knew that that part existed, and so much of Wednesday relies on the physicality, which helps as well. And then, Colleen Atwood, the wardrobe designer, she's absolutely incredible.

Caitlin Reilly (02:14): Incredible.

Jenna Ortega (02:15): Yeah. So her costumes as well. Nirvana Jalalvand, who did my hair and makeup for season one, did my hair and makeup this time around, so again, trusted her, she knows everything, there was no hesitation or question. So there was just something about all of us being prepared and knowing what we were getting into already, where the first season-

Caitlin Reilly (02:32): Helped you snap back.

Jenna Ortega (02:33): Yeah. First season was stressful and scary and confusing.

Caitlin Reilly (02:36): Well, I read somewhere that you mastered the art of not blinking, which I noticed it a lot more this season too, where I'm like, yeah, no, she's not blinking. And it's such an incredible choice you've made with the character, I have to say.

Jenna Ortega (02:50): Oh, thanks. I don't know when that happened, I just remember kicking myself once I realized that it was a thing. It felt wrong to have my eyes closed. And it's always funny, because I appreciate the editor, Jay, because he, I think, knows when to use the blinks in vulnerable moments sometimes, and you can assist as much as you can. But I feel like I'm almost getting worse at it, I think the older I get and the more tired I get, just the more my eyes are dry.

Caitlin Reilly (03:17): Well, you made a choice and now you have to stick with that.

Jenna Ortega (03:19): I know.

Caitlin Reilly (03:19): But it's a good choice. I didn't see any blinking happening, it was great.

Jenna Ortega (03:23): Appreciate that.

Caitlin Reilly (03:24): So how did we evolve Wednesday's look this season with her costuming? Were you working closely with Colleen and her team? How is it different this season from last season,

Jenna Ortega (03:34): I trust Colleen Atwood and Mark Sutherland so immensely that I just let them play and do what they need to do. I think when I first had my big fitting... You have one big fitting at the beginning of a show, and then you're shooting so much, it's harder to get in, so we just did hours of trying on clothes, and because we were coming back from summer break, they were saying something about it being '90s summer, we were trying chunky sandals with white socks. Wednesday doesn't like showing skin, so it was just very awkward, the palest parts of my body were white fabric from long t-shirts and things like that. But they're the coolest and you don't want to get in the way of their genius at all.

Caitlin Reilly (04:13): Yeah. I wanted to touch on the Addams clan expanding this season. Pugsley is a new student at Nevermore, which is a new dynamic for you and your brother. Morticia and Gomez are closer than ever, gross. So how do we see Wednesday's dynamic with her mother expand and change, and what was it like bringing that to life with Catherine Zeta-Jones?

Jenna Ortega (04:35): Well, it was a hard balance, because she's very annoyed with her mother and I didn't want to repeat season one, because they were going head-to-head the entire time, but in the same breath, it's entirely understandable if you're looking for your independence and trying to be your own person and then your mom comes to babysit you and hover over you, that's frustrating for anybody. But I tried to make sure that there was a bit more love in between, and maybe you saw that Wednesday wasn't being completely irrational about it. I don't know, I just didn't want it to be the same thing, so I tried to work with that.

(05:07): And then, it was wonderful having Pugsley around. Isaac, I think, looks like he came straight out of Charles Addams comic strip.

Caitlin Reilly (05:14): Truly.

Jenna Ortega (05:15): He's got such a perfect look, he's grown into Pugsley even more and more. I remember when we auditioned him for the first time, we were auditioning Pugsleys and he got off the Zoom and we all just looked at each other, me, Tim, Al, Miles, and we just said, "Okay, so it's him, right?" He was just the most unanimous cast that we had. He's great and I love to be able to bully him. It's hard, because Wednesday has to balance so much of the mystery aspect that you want to make sure that her personality still gets to shine a bit more, and it's not just all information, information or it comes off nasty or bratty. It's understandable to bicker with your sibling, so he was always a nice comedic relief.

[CLIP] Wednesday Addams (05:56):There's a stop sign coming up. Hit the O, dead center.

Pugsley Addams (05:59): I'm not sure I can.

Wednesday Addams (06:01): If you don't, I'll be forced to hit eject.

Pugsley Addams (06:05): Only dad's button can do that.

Gomez Addams (06:07): I had Thing rewire it.

Caitlin Reilly (06:12): We meet Grandmama this season.

Jenna Ortega (06:14): I know.

Caitlin Reilly (06:15): What? Those were some of my favorite scenes that you had.

Jenna Ortega (06:19): Those were some of my favorite scenes to shoot as well. Joanna Lumley, legend.

Caitlin Reilly (06:24): An icon.

Jenna Ortega (06:25): Legend, she's everything you would hope her to be and more. She's just so sweet, so unbelievably funny, the most professional on set, knew everyone's lines. I don't think I ever saw her mess up once, honestly. And she looked amazing, that Bride of Frankenstein hair reference was so cool.

Caitlin Reilly (06:45): The best hair.

Jenna Ortega (06:46): And a lot of our crew, they're from the UK as well.

Caitlin Reilly (06:49): Oh, I'm sure she was-

Jenna Ortega (06:52): Yeah, they all screamed.

Caitlin Reilly (06:52): Oh, absolutely. I was like, thank you, thank you, guys.

Jenna Ortega (06:56): Yeah. Anytime I did a scene with Joanna Lumley, and then Catherine Zeta-Jones, I was in awe, just so impressed. Truly, truly such masters at what they do. Those were always some of my favorite days on set.

Caitlin Reilly (07:09): Yeah.

[CLIP] Morticia Addams (07:10): Grandmama was always better at burying things than fixing them.

Grandmama (07:14): Old memories are like old corpses, they never quite seem the same when you dig them up.

Morticia Addams (07:23): Mama, what an unpleasant surprise.

Grandmama (07:27): Varikas told me you rang and I wanted to give Wednesday the deed to the cemetery I bought her, just a little starter property, give her a taste of the family business.

Caitlin Reilly (07:37): I wanted to talk about some more relationships with you. You see a difference in your dynamic this season with Enid, so I wanted to talk about reuniting with Emma and expanding on that relationship this season and how it's changing and how it's going to change.

Jenna Ortega (07:51): I don't want to speak on Emma's behalf, but in the same breath, we talked a lot about Enid's style changing and the way that she carried herself, and that's a very natural thing for a teenager to do, and she looked cool.

PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:08:04]

Jenna Ortega (08:03): That's a very natural thing for a teenager to do. And she looked cool. She was becoming more confident and independent and was a very strong believer in her own strength, which I think is really empowering and incredible for girls to see. I'm so glad that Emma... Emma is so great. She really is so talented. So I was glad that she had a bit more to play with.

Caitlin Reilly (08:19): Yeah, she was great this season.

Jenna Ortega (08:21): Yeah, she's just... Oh, God. She's such a lovable character. And that's all thanks to Emma. So anytime... We're kind of distant, not to give too much away, but we're kind of distant in the first few episodes. It was so strange to play that distance because shooting with her, it's... Those are the easiest, for sure. We just have a natural chemistry and rapport and it was weird to go against that.

[CLIP] Enid Sinclair (08:49): I died because of you. I died because of you.

(08:56):

Wednesday.

Caitlin Reilly (08:57): So Wednesday has a psychic vision that Enid's going to die. And even though Wednesday is obviously so stoic and brilliantly played by you, she has to save her best friend. So what path do you think that, that puts Wednesday on that might be different from what we've already seen from her?

Jenna Ortega (09:17): It's strange because Wednesday's doing all of this for a friend, and-

Caitlin Reilly (09:21): Right.

Jenna Ortega (09:21): ... that just itself is unnatural to her and new for her, and it puts her in an uncomfortable position because she's kind of extending herself in a way that she hasn't before. I think that, that was really big, and it's the first time where maybe she doesn't want to inflict pain on somebody else. At least not take it that far. You know?

Caitlin Reilly (09:40): Yeah.

Jenna Ortega (09:40): She's okay to mess with Enid a little, but I think death is a step too far.

Caitlin Reilly (09:45): Yeah. I'm sort of noticing in this season, there's a level of vulnerability that Wednesday is experiencing where she really is starting to care for Enid and wants to take care of her as a friend, as opposed to just putting herself in a box and sticking to what is in her comfort zone. And so I think that's been really interesting to see and I've been loving that.

Jenna Ortega (10:07): Yeah. And it was really important to me also that it's just Wednesday doesn't want to talk about it, she doesn't want to acknowledge it, that it just exists.

Caitlin Reilly (10:14): And your relationship with Enid's really incredible. And, I mean, I was such a fan watching this season.

Jenna Ortega (10:21): Yeah, they're cute together.

Caitlin Reilly (10:22): Yeah. And I love where Wednesday's going and she's being broken open a little bit and it's been really nice to see you play that for sure.

Jenna Ortega (10:30): Nice.

[CLIP] Enid Sinclair (10:31): I just have so many goals this year. I want to secure my place in the pack, become dance troupe captain, and finally join the Nightshades. What about you?

Wednesday Addams (10:41): Avoid people and work on my new [inaudible 00:10:43].

Enid Sinclair (10:45): That doesn't sound like much of a personal evolution.

Wednesday Addams (10:47): I don't evolve. I cocoon.

Caitlin Reilly (10:50): So in addition to starring on the show, you are a producer this season. How has your role changed? What have you learned? What has it been like collaborating with Al and Miles on this season?

Jenna Ortega (11:03): Well, I feel like I'm a part of conversations earlier on, which is really nice. I love to see the process. I love what I do, so it's so fascinating to watch scripts being made and be a part of the pitches or decisions being made on prosthetics. We always had a collaborative relationship, but it was really wonderful. Me, Al, Miles, Tim being able to sit together and just kind of break down scripts and decide what we felt was best for the character and the show. Because I love film TV, I've always wanted to be on the other side of the camera. I feel like I've learned so much and I was lucky enough to be with people who allowed me to learn and shadow them and follow Tim around on location scouts and things like that.

Caitlin Reilly (11:42): I mean, that's a dream, location scouting with Tim.

Jenna Ortega (11:44): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (11:44): Sounds like-

Jenna Ortega (11:45): Pretty crazy.

Caitlin Reilly (11:45): ... the best day ever.

Jenna Ortega (11:46): Definitely.

Caitlin Reilly (11:46): Now, do you find that putting on your producer hat is easier or is it harder than putting on your actor hat?

Jenna Ortega (11:55): I guess sometimes it depends on the job. Certain characters require different things, but with Wednesday, because she's so particular-

Caitlin Reilly (12:02): Right.

Jenna Ortega (12:03): ... and it's not always about feeling natural, playing her is actually quite unnatural because you have to keep reminding yourself to do less, do less, do less.

Caitlin Reilly (12:09): Right.

Jenna Ortega (12:10): I look at everything in a more objective sense because it's really about the image on the outside and every once in a while you have to work the gears. I don't know. It's a fine balance, but also doing it for so long, you snap into it. I knew what the character needed and I had studied her enough and understood her well enough at that point.

(12:28):

And then producer was just more so... I am very observant and oftentimes on set it can be quiet and I just like to watch people work sometimes. I don't like leaving the set. I don't like going back to the tent. I like to watch everyone work. So I think having been familiar with the way the set operated already, we try to find our time. Also, such a busy schedule. We try to find time in between setups and takes and things and get to have conversations about the show, which was nice and better. You can bring a book or something in between set, but you're not really going to be that productive in it. You know?

Caitlin Reilly (13:01): Exactly. It's more fun to watch and soak it all in.

Jenna Ortega (13:03): Definitely.

Caitlin Reilly (13:04): Yeah. Thank you so much, Jenna, for joining us.

Jenna Ortega (13:06): Thank you.

Caitlin Reilly (13:07): And I look forward to talking to you in the future, about episode eight.

Jenna Ortega (13:10): Me, too.

[CLIP] Morticia Addams (13:13): Wait, this is the first time you've ever willingly returned to a school. How does it feel?

Wednesday Addams (13:19): Like returning to the scene of the crime.

Morticia Addams (13:21): Hmm.

Wednesday Addams (13:22): I already know where the bodies are buried.

Caitlin Reilly (13:24): I need to make a note on the scripts for the next episode of the Woecast. Thing, can you grab a pen for me, please? Thing, you okay, bud? Hey.

(13:44): I am so excited to welcome the dream team behind Wednesday. They are co-creators, co-showrunners, executive producers, and writers. That's a lot. Everybody, please welcome Al Gough and Miles Millar.

Al Gough (14:01): Thank you.

Miles Millar (14:02): Thank you.

Caitlin Reilly (14:03): So right off the bat, at the beginning of the season, we're back in action. Why did you want to kick off the season that way by having Wednesday take down a killer?

Al Gough (14:12): We wanted to show Wednesday... It's sort of what she did on her summer vacation.

Miles Millar (14:15): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (14:16): I see.

Al Gough (14:16): So it was like, what would Wednesday Addams do on her summer vacation? She'd take down the serial killer. So it allowed us to see Wednesday in the real world, which is also fun, and see her going up against authority figures like she does at the TSA.

Miles Millar (14:31): And our very famous TSA officer, Al finally got a cameo in the-

Al Gough (14:35): I was-

Caitlin Reilly (14:35): I was going to-

Miles Millar (14:36): Yeah.

Al Gough (14:36): Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You were like, who's the guy in the baseball cap? He looks very familiar to you. Yes, he does. He does. I was roped into that by Miles and Tim Burton.

Caitlin Reilly (14:45): You wanted to do it. Don't lie, Al.

Al Gough (14:45): No, I did not.

Miles Millar (14:45): He did.

Al Gough (14:48): No. No, I did not. I didn't, but I had done the same thing to Miles in the season one-

Miles Millar (14:52):

[inaudible 00:14:53].

Al Gough (14:52): ... opener where he was the judgy teacher. And so-

Caitlin Reilly (14:55): Ah.

Miles Millar (14:57): A sweet revenge for me.

Al Gough (14:57): So Miles was smiling-

Miles Millar (14:58): It felt-

Al Gough (14:58): ... the whole time until I got a line, and then he was annoyed.

Caitlin Reilly (15:02): Well, and now you have an acting credit on IMDB.

Al Gough (15:04): Exactly.

Caitlin Reilly (15:05): Now, we see so much of the intergenerational Addams women this season, which I loved. How did you approach those dynamics, writing-wise?

Al Gough (15:15): It was definitely an intentional choice.

Caitlin Reilly (15:17): Yeah.

Al Gough (15:17): I mean, what's interesting about the Addams family is everybody loves them. We know very little about them.

Caitlin Reilly (15:23): Right.

Al Gough (15:23): Because before the television show in the sixties, they didn't even have names.

Caitlin Reilly (15:27): Right.

Al Gough (15:28): They were named for the TV show. Then you have the movies in the nineties, and then you have some animated things, but nobody knows about the family.

Miles Millar (15:37):  There isn't a deep lore-

Al Gough (15:38): There isn't a deep lore. Yeah.

Miles Millar (15:39): ... [inaudible 00:15:39] or comic books or books or novels. It's just, they began as panels-

Al Gough (15:45): Yeah.

Miles Millar (15:45):  ... literally in the New Yorker. And so it's, for us, it's-

Al Gough (15:46): [inaudible 00:15:47].

Miles Millar (15:46): ... [inaudible 00:15:47] because it's a clean slate, it's the map we can chart ourselves-

Al Gough (15:51): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (15:51): Right.

Miles Millar (15:51): ... in terms of learning the backstory, the history of the Addams family, and then also giving them some complexity. And we love the female relationships, but also the... When we introduced Grandmama this season with-

PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:16:04]

Miles Millar (16:03): ... relationships. But when we introduced Grandmama this season, who's played by Joanna Lumley.

Caitlin Reilly (16:05): Was that a choice that you guys had early on?

Al Gough (16:09): That was literally the choice in the writers room. We were like, "We need a Joanna Lumley type." And then we're like-

Miles Millar (16:14): Why not Joanna Lumley?

Al Gough (16:16): Just ask Joanna Lumley.

Caitlin Reilly (16:18): I loved the generational story that's going on with the women. It's so brilliantly written

Miles Millar (16:22): And just the look.

Caitlin Reilly (16:22): The look.

Miles Millar (16:28): The costumes and the hair. And even the American accent, because I've never heard her do American accent before and it's just perfect.

Caitlin Reilly (16:34): Oh, same.

Al Gough (16:34): She was great.

Caitlin Reilly (16:34): She was... It's-

Miles Millar (16:34): And she's such a delight on set, and everyone just like, she's just word-perfect. She comes in and just nails it and it's just such a delight to be with. So it's just adding her to it and seeing the three generations of Addams women together is just something that we hoped would be good, and it's just surpassed our expectations and I can't wait to do more with them. It's a really special chemistry between the three of them.

Caitlin Reilly (16:58): Yes.

Miles Millar (16:59): And I think you see it on screen, and I think it's really, really good.

Morticia Addams (17:03): Darling, Grandmama and I need to speak, alone.

Grandmama (17:10): Augusta Stonehurst, that's who signed those death certificates.

Morticia Addams (17:20): What are you and Wednesday up to?

Grandmama (17:23): She asked for my help.

Morticia Addams (17:24): You're not helping. You're driving a wedge between me and my daughter.

Grandmama (17:28): That wedge was already an unbridgeable abyss, dear. My advice, stop the constant hovering. Wednesday needs space to grow. She gets into a little trouble. It's a mother's job to stand back, let her figure it out for herself. Thrive or die.

Morticia Addams (17:43): Says the woman whose youngest daughter has been missing for 20 years.

Caitlin Reilly (17:48): What has it been like getting to make Catherine Zeta-Jones a more central figure this season? We see her sing, dance, sword fight. She's incredible.

Al Gough (17:57): Well, I think one thing we learned from season one, like we said, is people wanted to know more about the family, and we wanted to find a way to organically bring the family into the school without feeling like they were just being shoehorned in. So the idea that she would be the gala chairperson, suddenly, she's there and around but she's not like a teacher at the school or something, but she's there. And it allowed us to really flesh out the mother-daughter story, which again, you got glimpses of in season one, in episodes one and five, and I think we enjoyed that so much and so did the fans from the feedback we got, and again, they wanted to know more.

Al Gough (18:38): Because what's interesting about the Addams family is the dynamic had always been set up like a sitcom if you look at the original show, which is the Addamses were always aligned against the outside world, so what this show tries to do is interject an actual family dynamic. They all still love each other. We all have families that love each other, but you can still have conflict within the families and generational conflict and issues with parents and children and grandparents.

Miles Millar (19:07): And particularly there's the mother-daughter dynamic, which is always interesting in most families.

Caitlin Reilly (19:11): I know it well.

Miles Millar (19:12): Yes. So it's playing... It's really-

Al Gough (19:14): We've had a front row seat in our families.

Miles Millar (19:16): Yes.

Caitlin Reilly (19:16): I'm sure.

Al Gough (19:17): Yeah, it's always good. And then they want audience participation. I'd rather not play. Thank you.

Caitlin Reilly (19:23): I get it. Yeah, Catherine Zeta-Jones, she's such a perfect choice for Morticia and she plays it so beautifully.

Al Gough (19:33): And it's funny, when we were first casting that role in season one, even Tim was like, "Wednesday's mother has to be a lot." You know what I mean? Who would be the mother where you felt like you couldn't get out of her shadow? An Oscar-winning actress would do that.

Caitlin Reilly (19:51): Velma Kelly herself.

Miles Millar (19:53): Yes, exactly.

Caitlin Reilly (19:53): Yeah.

Miles Millar (19:54): Finding who is Morticia's mother? You needed an icon, a legend, so Joanna was like, "Oh." So each one feels real. They bring great baggage to their roles. Great as their roles, but also they say the Oscar-winning actress, legendary sitcom stars. So you have that whole thing, the delicious soup that happens. It's amazing.

Caitlin Reilly (20:17): A delicious soup.

Miles Millar (20:17): Yeah.

[CLIP]  Enid Sinclair(20:18): Are we going to talk about what happened last night at the Pyre? You really freaked me out with the fainting spell and black tears.

[CLIP] Wednesday Addams (20:25): I'm fine.

Jenna Ortega (20:26): If you were really fine, Lurch wouldn't have had to carry you out of there. For someone who hates being the center of attention, you have a weird habit of attracting it.

Wednesday Addams (20:33): I'd rather attract leprosy.

Jenna Ortega (20:36): I know that being popular goes against everything Wednesday core, but for the rest of us who also helped save the school, it is a nice silver lining.

Wednesday Addams (20:44): Then consider me your dark cloud.

Jenna Ortega (20:46): Always.

Caitlin Reilly (20:48): Now, outside of the Addams clan, Wednesday's other relationships expand and change a lot this season. We immediately see a difference in her dynamic with Enid. Maybe there's a little distance, maybe a little tension. How do we see Enid and Wednesday's relationship change this season?

Al Gough (21:04): Well, Enid and Wednesday, their relationship is really, the female friendship is really core to the show. And season one with the hug was like, "Oh, they're friends." But this is the thing with Wednesday, she's never had a friend, and relationships and friendships change, and Enid has changed because now she's wolfed out, she has more confidence. She's part of a pack.

Miles Millar (21:26): She has a boyfriend.

Al Gough (21:27): She's got a boyfriend, so all of those things. So she's not the same Enid from season one, so I think Wednesday also has to navigate that. And then of course, by the end of the first episode, she finds out she could be responsible for Enid's death. Rather than bringing Enid into that, Wednesday feels like, "She can't handle it. I'll deal with this myself." So it's still Wednesday learning how to be a friend.

Caitlin Reilly (21:50): Right.

Miles Millar (21:52): That's even just the arc of the season. Yeah, it's actually, she underestimates Enid. And one of Wednesday's issues, it's her arrogance and her lack of understanding this idea of change, because she doesn't understand change. Also about control, that she thinks she could control everything and control everyone, and she finds she can't.

Al Gough (22:12): She has the emotional growth, it's like AM radio bandwidth. It's very small but it's very meaningful when it happens, and-

Miles Millar (22:21): If it happens.

Al Gough (22:21): If it happens. And what's interesting in the challenge of writing the character is she's doing all the things you would want a girl detective to do, but not for any of the reasons that a normal protagonist would do them. She's not there to save the day or to help people. She ends up doing all those things, but she's really there for her own curiosity and to prove she's right and to solve a mystery that she can solve because she's the smartest person in the room.

Caitlin Reilly (22:50): Well, she's also very much like a reluctant hero.

Al Gough (22:53): Very much.

Miles Millar (22:54): Very much. And also one of the challenges for us is that you have to protect the idea of Wednesday, so she's never going to be someone who is doing it out there for good and justice. She's doing it for other reasons, and I think it's actually, we always have to keep ourselves honest. Sometimes you fall into the trope, although she's rescuing people for these various reasons, and sometimes you're allowed to do that. In some episodes, she does do things because she cares about someone, but it's few and far between and you have to earn that moment. And also, we have this rule about really making sure that the Wednesday people know and have always grown up with, she needs to be that person. She's not going to go through a huge arc like a normal protagonist would. There's a purity to her and to her point of view that we need to keep and Honor.

Al Gough (23:40): Yeah.

[CLIP] Professor Dort  (23:41): Wednesday Addams. Oh, it is an honor to meet the savior of Nevermore. Allow me to introduce myself. Barry Dort, your new principal. Would you like a sticker?

[CLIP] Wednesday Addams (23:56): Only if you have one that says do not resuscitate.

[CLIP] Professor Dort (24:00): There's that wicked tongue I've heard so much about. I love it.

PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [00:24:04]

Principal Dort (24:03): There's that wicked tongue I've heard so much about, I love it.

Caitlin Reilly (24:04): We have a duplicitous new principal at the center of this season. Tell us about Principal Dort, and what has it been like welcoming Steve Buscemi to the cast? Another incredible casting choice, might I say.

Miles Millar (24:18): Yeah. Well, for us it was like, how did we top Gwendolyn Christie in terms of Williams was=.

Caitlin Reilly (24:23): How do you?

Miles Millar (24:24): Well, with Steve Buscemi.

Caitlin Reilly (24:25): Right?

Miles Millar (24:26): Yeah. So it was just finding someone who was the opposite of Williams, and attitudinally but also visually. So it was just something that we really wanted to find someone different. And Steve is such an icon, and the fact he wanted to do it and he'd watched the show and was a huge fan. It was just a total delight.

(24:44): He brings such a different energy to the show, and in episode one there's the great speech at the Pia where he dances to Bruce Springsteen. That was an idea Tim had the night before. It was like, "Guys, I think you'll want to have a..." We had a line about Springsteen being an outcast. And then Tim said, "Let's play the song." I was like, "We have to get the rights cleared in 12 hours."

(25:03): So it was a really... And just talking to Colleen about the look. We had to go from the classic beauty of Gwendolyn and the Tippy Hedren, Hitchcockian femme fatale to Steve and a couple.

Al Gough (25:17): Yeah, it's like dad core.

Miles Millar (25:19): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (25:19): Yeah.

Al Gough (25:21): But it's the idea too that where Weems is all about trying to merge the Normies and the outcasts and have that, Dort's approach is, "Nope, it's just outcasts on our own, outcast pride." Trying to build up their confidence and such. And of course he's a huckster underneath. But he does. He brings such a great energy to it that's different, and that's what we really want.

Miles Millar (25:46): And he's so likeable, he's a total huckster. And even there's a scene in episode one where he is really manipulative with Bianca, and it's really creepy and menacing. But it's Steve, so you don't hate him.

Caitlin Reilly (26:00): It's Steve-

Miles Millar (26:00): You don't hate him.

Caitlin Reilly (26:00): ... as we all say.

Miles Millar (26:00): Right?

Caitlin Reilly (26:01): Hey, it's Steve, come on.

Al Gough (26:02): And he had a great thing where he wanted his hairstyle... He also is a guy who looks good in a wig, which is crazy.

Miles Millar (26:08): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (26:08): He looks really good in a wig.

Al Gough (26:08): And that was his idea, because his hair is based on Edgar Allan Poe's.

Caitlin Reilly (26:12): Of course.

Al Gough (26:12): So that was his idea.

Caitlin Reilly (26:12): Of course.

Miles Millar (26:12): Yeah.

Al Gough (26:12): Yeah, it was great, it was so good.

Caitlin Reilly (26:15): Oh, god. We love Steve in the studio.

Al Gough (26:17): Yes, boys.

Caitlin Reilly (26:17): We love Steve. Love Steve.

Miles Millar (26:18): Thank you, Steve.

Caitlin Reilly (26:19): Now, once Wednesday gets back to Nevermore, she's confronted with a horrifying fact. She's popular, gross. Why does Wednesday despise this new development so much?

Al Gough (26:30): With people like her, she's not going to like that. She likes being her own person. She likes the fact that people don't like her, that she makes them uncomfortable.

Miles Millar (26:38): Yeah, she's an island, she's not interested in joining other people. Again, the purity of Wednesday Addams is like, "She doesn't care." That's the last thing she wants, is eyes on her. She wants to live in her own little corner and do what she does.

Al Gough (26:50): And she's not going to allow herself to be manipulated by popularity. So I think that's why I love the speech when she gets up there, because it was just like, "I'm not going to do this, this is not who I am. This is all stupid, I'm not doing this."

Caitlin Reilly (27:06): She's never going to come [inaudible 00:27:07].

Miles Millar (27:06): And it's part of the aspirational element of the character that she does things that people wish they could. People are chasing popularity. She doesn't need to. So I think she sees through that, and I think that's refreshing. But also, there's a downside in terms of... Does that make her happy that she can't-

Caitlin Reilly (27:22): Yeah, it's isolating to stick to your guns.

Al Gough (27:25): Yeah.

Miles Millar (27:25): That's right, and there are pros and cons of that. I think that's something we definitely explore in the show, yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (27:30): Yeah.

Enid Sinclair (27:32): You thought I was your hero? I'm not. I always play dirty, and I never fight fair. The only side I want is my own, and the only place I'll lead you is off a cliff.

Caitlin Reilly (27:44): So the first episode includes this incredible stop-motion sequence, very classique Tim Burton. What was the impetus behind that?

Miles Millar (27:55): The stop-motion sequence really began as someone telling the story, which we need for backstory, for the legend of the skull tree. And then as we're writing we thought, this is just boring. So how do we make it special, and unique and very Tim? So we came up with the idea, let's do a stop-motion sequence. And it's actually very expensive to do that. So we thought, if ever we get a chance to do stop-motion, this is the moment in terms of this show.

Miles Millar (28:22): So we talked to Tim, and Tim loved the idea. And we got a team in the UK who had worked with Tim before, and they built these incredible sets. It took probably eight months actually from start to finish, and it's only 60 seconds and just the attention to detail. And then Tim actually designed the head.

Caitlin Reilly (28:45): Did he really?

Al Gough (28:45): Yeah.

Miles Millar (28:45): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (28:46): Wow.

Miles Millar (28:46): So he came in. They said, "Oh, come over to see Tim and his trailer." And he had this little Tupperware box, and inside the... He opened it up, and in this tissue paper was this model head that he had made over the weekend. It's a bunch of safety pins for hair, and it was just like this most... Just seeing this decapitated head of this design in this box was just like, "Oh my god, it's going to be incredible." And I got to go to see the sets, and see them making a few seconds of the sequence. And it was just mind-blowing how big the sets were, the detail of the sets, and just the attention to detail and how long it takes to make.

Al Gough (29:23): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (29:23): Yeah. There's so much going on this season, and it really is... As a audience member, viewer, fan and SAG-AFTRA actor, I had to. It all blends so seamlessly. There's so much going on, so many different storylines, and I loved this season. I just have to say.

Miles Millar (29:44): That's great.

Al Gough (29:44): Thank you.

Caitlin Reilly (29:45): Yeah.

Miles Millar (29:45): Our mantra in our writer's room is always never boring, so that's... Every episode has to be a full feast of-

Caitlin Reilly (29:51): Nevermore is never boring.

Miles Millar (29:51): Nevermore is never boring.

Al Gough (29:52): Nevermore is never boring.

Miles Millar (29:54): So for us it's always about keep grabbing attention, and making sure that we have a lot of spinning plates, and somehow at the end they all don't fall.

Caitlin Reilly (30:03): Come together.

Miles Millar (30:03): Don't break.

Al Gough (30:04): Yeah. But that's-

Caitlin Reilly (30:05):

It has to make sense.

Miles Millar (30:06): But it's juggling.

Al Gough (30:07): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (30:07): Yeah.

Miles Millar (30:07): And sometimes in the middle of it it's like, "Oh my god, all these things going to like-"

Al Gough (30:11): Are they all going to work?

Miles Millar (30:12): "... come together?"

Al Gough (30:12): Yeah.

Miles Millar (30:12): But-

Caitlin Reilly (30:12): They did.

Miles Millar (30:14): Yeah, well it's great.

Caitlin Reilly (30:15): They did.

Miles Millar (30:15): Good to hear.

Caitlin Reilly (30:15): You did good work, guys.

Al Gough (30:17): Thank you.

Caitlin Reilly (30:17): Good job. Thank you so much both for joining me today, and being here. I cannot wait to have you back on to get in all the juicy details of the rest of the season.

Al Gough (30:26): Great.

Miles Millar (30:26): Thanks so much.

Al Gough (30:26): Thank you.

Caitlin Reilly (30:27): Great, thank you. In the next episode, I will be joined by Hunter Doohan, who will be here to dish all on Tyler and Wednesday, Tyler and his master, and transforming into a Hyde.

Caitlin Reilly (30:43): Who was the worst?

Hunter Doohan (30:44): Who is the worst?

Caitlin Reilly (30:45): I'm kidding.

Hunter Doohan (30:45): Owen Painter.

Caitlin Reilly (30:48): He's awful.

(30:49): Plus, I'll be chatting with director Paco Cabezas will break down all of the insane action we have seen so far.

Paco Cabezas (30:56): He goes super closer to her, and they're super, super close to each other but there's a wall in between them. In the end, it's all about the little movements and little details.

Caitlin Reilly (31:06): And magician, actor, thing's emotional support human, Victor Dorobantu will be here to talk us through Thing's journey this season.

Victor Dorobantu (31:15): A big lesson guys, don't drink prop drinks.

Caitlin Reilly (31:19): What was it?

Victor Dorobantu (31:19): It was not rum, for sure.

Caitlin Reilly (31:21): That is all coming up on the next episode of the Wednesday season two official woecast. I'm Caitlin Reilly, and I'll catch you next time my little nightshades.

PART 4 OF 4 ENDS [00:31:46]