Joy Sunday (00:01): She is exerting her power, but she's lessening herself. She's chipping away at herself every time she has to siren someone because she's doing it to deceive. 

Video: You'll have no memory I was here.

Caitlin Reilly (00:16): Hello, I'm Caitlin Reilly, and welcome back to the Wednesday season two official Woecast. There is so much to discuss, so let's dive right in with some incredible guests. First up, Georgie Farmer who plays our favorite gorgon Ajax, Joy Sunday, who plays the enchanting, Bianca Barclay. Also joining me is Visual Effects' Supervisor Tom Turnbull, to chat about the insane visuals in season two. Plus, we have episode five, director, the incredible Angela Robinson to talk about the return of this season. I am so pleased to be joined by everyone's favorite stoner Ajax, the gorgon, Mr. Georgie Farmer. How are you today?

Georgie Farmer (01:12): I'm good. How are you?

Caitlin Reilly (01:14): I'm feeling quite fantastically brilliant, darling.

Georgie Farmer (01:18): That's a great British accent.

Caitlin Reilly (01:19): Thank you so much.

Georgie Farmer (01:20): You just spoke off camera and she said she was going to do it.

Caitlin Reilly (01:22): Yeah, we were going to do it off camera, and then I did it on camera.

Georgie Farmer (01:24): Yeah, it's amazing. It's great.

Caitlin Reilly (01:25): I was like, "He's going to be obsessed with me and my accent."

Georgie Farmer (01:27): Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (01:28): And now here we are. So Ajax and Enid last season, they were close this season they are not. What is going on with them?

Georgie Farmer (01:37): I think what's happened for Enid is she's done a lot of growth. She's done a lot of self-growth, and she's sort of realized that she's sort of not the same person that she was before the summer, but Ajax is still very much in that mindset of how they was before they went away.

Caitlin Reilly (01:53): And in love with her probably.

Georgie Farmer (01:54): And so in love with her.

Caitlin Reilly (01:55): Yeah, because she's beautiful,

Georgie Farmer (01:57): Because she's amazing, right?

Caitlin Reilly (01:57): And she's amazing.

Georgie Farmer (01:58): She's the coolest and she has met someone else and she's developed feelings for someone else. And so Ajax has to navigate that really tricky road that you sometimes do in high school and in life. But I think high school, it's kind of harder because when you are around that person and their new partner every day-

Caitlin Reilly (02:15): An absolute living nightmare.

Georgie Farmer (02:17): Yeah, exactly. So Ajax is a little heartbroken for most of the season, and I think it's more about him sort of spending time about getting over that and then also him sort of feeling comfortable enough in himself to use his powers too.

Caitlin Reilly (02:32): I wanted to talk about how Ajax is feeling about Bruno specifically.

Georgie Farmer (02:37):Right. Well, I think it's that thing when you meet your ex's new partner, there's always going to be this thing of who is this guy.

Caitlin Reilly (02:46): And how do I ruin their life?

Georgie Farmer (02:47): And yeah, how do I ruin their lives.

Caitlin Reilly (02:50): I mean, let's get real.

Georgie Farmer (02:51): Yeah. And also I think he feels very... there's probably a lot of comparing he's doing because I think a lot about Ajax too is that he's very insecure. His whole thing, he's been taught to not look at people in the eye. He's been told to sort of hide away a lot of himself for a lot of his life. And I think when meeting someone as cool as Bruno, who's so sort of confident in themselves and has this swagger about them, he's probably like, "Ah, I wish I could be like that." So I think it's a lot of comparison and friendly rivalry, I guess.

Video (03:26): After we cage the pups, we're going to sneak down to the lake for a midnight swim. You in?

(03:32): How long have we been broken up? I know that gorgons can be kind of slow, but I guess I just didn't want to believe it.

(03:48): You're right, Ajax. I should have told you when school started that my feelings had changed.

(03:54): Was it something that I did?

(03:56): No, just over the summer I realized I wasn't that insecure girl who thought she would never fit in.

(04:04): But I like that girl.

(04:06): I know, that she wolfed out and found herself.

Caitlin Reilly (04:13): Now there's some will-they-won't-they, but then Enid chooses Bruno.

Georgie Farmer (04:20): Yes.

Caitlin Reilly (04:20): I mean, deep down, do you think that Ajax is trying to be a good friend, a good ex, or do you think he's absolutely positively livid?

Georgie Farmer (04:32): I think he's struggling with it, and I think that's why Bianca becomes such an important relationship for him in the show, because you see it in several different scenes where Enid's joining in with Bruno and Ajax is very much like, "No, these guys can't join." But then Bianca is the person say to Ajax, no, stop being ridiculous.

Caitlin Reilly (04:53): I mean, so they form a pretty strong quick bond. What do you think Ajax sees in Bianca? Do you think that it's just two outcasts? Do you think it's romantic?

Georgie Farmer (05:05): Well, me and Joy actually spoke about it, and even in the first season, it seems to be that Bianca and Ajax have always sort of been close. I feel like they've been at the school together from the beginning. But I think Bianca really sort of sees in Ajax just that he's just genuinely a really nice person and he wants to help. And what's so great about Bianca for Ajax is that she makes him feel comfortable enough to be able to use his powers and feel comfortable in himself. And that was sort of the fun thing of the season, was seeing how Ajax grows sort of through Bianca's mentorship. Is there feelings there? I don't know.

Caitlin Reilly (05:45): Maybe.

Georgie Farmer (05:46): I don't know. Nevermore is a complicated place.

Video (05:49): It's my mom. She's in trouble and I've got to get her out of it before she permanently ruins her life. But I can't siren Orloff, his head's in a jar, so it blocks my song.

(06:12): You two less scabbing, more stuffing.

(06:12): Professor, can you take a look at these? Make sure I got the seals right. I don't usually do snail mail walk. Okay. That bought us a couple hours.

(06:27): Us? This is my problem. 

Us Nightshades forever, right?

Caitlin Reilly (06:31): I think Ajax is kind of like the unsung hero of the story. Am I allowed to say that?

Georgie Farmer (06:39): You can say it. You heard it here first, guys.

Caitlin Reilly (06:39): I think he’s the hero of the story. Sorry guys.

Georgie Farmer (06:44): No, listen. I feel like he's the guy that will... I mean even in, not to sort of beef him up a little too much.

Caitlin Reilly (06:50): No beef him up.

Georgie Farmer (06:51): But he's always the guy that sort of puts himself on the line. Do you know what I mean?

Caitlin Reilly (06:54): Yes.

Georgie Farmer (06:54): In the big fights and stuff. Like in 205, he sort of steps up first and he takes a bit of a beating. He's someone that you would want as your friend, I feel like.

Caitlin Reilly (07:04): I wanted to touch on Ajax's power. You're a gorgon. You can stone people.

Georgie Farmer (07:10): Stone people.

Caitlin Reilly (07:11): So you're wearing a bald cap, or are you shaving your head?

Georgie Farmer (07:14): No, I'm not. Well-

Caitlin Reilly (07:16): You got beautiful hair for the listeners. A beautiful head of hair.

Georgie Farmer (07:20): What's so ironic about it is that when I was shooting the show too, I had such long hair and I remember whenever-

Caitlin Reilly (07:27): Did you really?

Georgie Farmer (07:27): Yeah, I had hair down to here.

Caitlin Reilly (07:27): So you didn't shave your head?

Georgie Farmer (07:28): No, no, no, I didn't.

Caitlin Reilly (07:28): Why?

Georgie Farmer (07:29): I would make it a lot easier for hair and makeup, I guess.

Caitlin Reilly (07:32): Why'd you make it so difficult?

Georgie Farmer (07:33): I know, I know. Yeah. So if it's a day where you're not seeing the snakes, my hair's just tied up into a ponytail.

Caitlin Reilly (07:40): I see.

Georgie Farmer (07:41): And then there's a beanie, and then inside the beanie, there's all these little hairpieces and stuff.

Caitlin Reilly (07:45): To make it kind of look like the snakes

Georgie Farmer (07:47): It's pretty intense. Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (07:48): Do you get to keep the beanies?

Georgie Farmer (07:52): I was maybe going to ask to see if I could take my blazer, my Nevermore blazer.

Caitlin Reilly (07:58): Don't ask.

Georgie Farmer (07:58): I didn't get around to it.

Caitlin Reilly (08:00): Just put it in your bag.

Georgie Farmer (08:00): I know. I know.

Caitlin Reilly (08:04): Just put on your bag. I won't tell anybody.

Georgie Farmer (08:04): I know.

Caitlin Reilly (08:04): Just put it in your bag.

Georgie Farmer (08:05): Yeah. Next time. Next time.

Caitlin Reilly (08:06): Next time. Next time. I wanted to ask what it's been like welcoming Noah Taylor and sort of figuring out that dynamic with him. Has it been fun to play that out with him?

Georgie Farmer (08:15): It's been amazing. We were speaking actually earlier today, and it's weird that we've only sort of known each other a year because we just got so close. Me, him and Owen, we formed a little band in Dublin.

Caitlin Reilly (08:27): Shut up.

Georgie Farmer (08:28): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (08:28): What do you mean?

Georgie Farmer (08:29): Well, listen, I apologize to my neighbors where I was living, but what happened was is that we all, I would play the drums, Noah was on guitar, Owen was on electric guitar, and we set up this little studio, my living room.

Caitlin Reilly (08:42): What?

Georgie Farmer (08:43): And so every night we would jam until two, three AM in the morning. I did get a couple noise complaints. Sorry.

Caitlin Reilly (08:49): Did you record the music?

Georgie Farmer (08:51): There is some recordings.

Caitlin Reilly (08:52): Play it right now, Georgie.

Georgie Farmer (08:55): No. There is some recordings, but they would shoot me if I played.

Caitlin Reilly (08:58): No, no, nobody would shoot you.

Georgie Farmer (08:59): No, we made a pact. We made a pact that we wouldn't.

Caitlin Reilly (09:02): Okay. Pact's out. You ruined the pact.

Georgie Farmer (09:03): I know.

Caitlin Reilly (09:04): Now I'm in the band.

Georgie Farmer (09:05): I know, I know. I know. You can ask him about it.

Caitlin Reilly (09:08): Well, okay, so aside from making an incredible band together, what are some of your other favorite memories while filming?

Georgie Farmer (09:15): Oh man, we had loads. What's a testament to the show is, I know it's said all the time, but for some reason it really is just the greatest group of people.

Caitlin Reilly (09:25): It seems like it.

Georgie Farmer (09:26): We've all become so close and it feels like we've known each other for years. It was my birthday pretty early on, we had a party at my place that was fun. Then we did a karaoke night, which was amazing.

Caitlin Reilly (09:42): What's your go-to karaoke song?

Georgie Farmer (09:43): Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls.

Caitlin Reilly (09:46): Goo Goo Dolls, yes. Incredible song.

Georgie Farmer (09:47): That became sort of the song of the thing.

Caitlin Reilly (09:50): Nice.

Georgie Farmer (09:51): Or Teenage Dirtbag is a good one.

Caitlin Reilly (09:52): That's a really good one.

Georgie Farmer (09:54): But yeah, we all actually did the karaoke all together. That was a great night.

Caitlin Reilly (09:58): Well, Georgie, that's all the time we have.

Georgie Farmer (10:01): That was amazing. That was so much fun.

Caitlin Reilly (10:03): This was a blast.

Georgie Farmer (10:05): This is great. This is the highlight of my day.

Caitlin Reilly (10:06): This is the highlight of my day. Are you kidding me?

Georgie Farmer (10:07): This is amazing.

Caitlin Reilly (10:08): I'm in a band now.

Georgie Farmer (10:09): Let's go. Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (10:10): It's my life. Georgie, thank you so much for talking with me.

Georgie Farmer (10:13): Thank you so much. Such a pleasure. Thank you.

Caitlin Reilly (10:15): Everybody, Ajax himself.

Georgie Farmer (10:17): That's me. That's me.

Caitlin Reilly (10:19): Don't stone anyone else today.

Georgie Farmer (10:20): I'll try not to. I'll try not to.

Video (10:28): Aim for the Gorgon's beanie.

 (10:32): No. Close your eyes.

(10:38): I got it. Fire the flare.

(10:44): Come on.

Caitlin Reilly (10:47): Hey, Thing. I'm listening to Georgie and Owen's bands. They're really good. Do you think that they would have me as their lead singer? Because I can actually sing. No, I can. I can sing. I can sing. I can sing. I can sing any genre.  I am thrilled to welcome our next guest to the studio, the enchanting Joy Sunday, who plays Bianca Barclay. Thank you for being here.

Joy Sunday (11:20): Thank you for having me.

Caitlin Reilly (11:21): You look stunning today.

Joy Sunday (11:22): You as well. With the suit.

Caitlin Reilly (11:23): You are a vision. Oh, my God, the colors, the shoes. Hello. Do you want to hop into the questions?

Joy Sunday (11:32): Yeah, let's do it.

Caitlin Reilly (11:33): Amazing. So Bianca's arc is very rich and very complex this season. She's hiding her mother, basically being blackmailed by her principal, and still trying to maintain life as a teenager. All real simple stuff. What new sides of Bianca do we get to see this season?

Joy Sunday (11:50): I think there are peaks of it in the first season where we saw her vulnerability, but I guess she doesn't really have anyone to cry out for help to. That wasn't a grammatically correct sentence.

Caitlin Reilly (12:03): We're there. We're there.

Joy Sunday (12:03): We got it.

Caitlin Reilly (12:03): We got it.

Joy Sunday (12:06): We're with me.

Caitlin Reilly (12:06): We're there.

Joy Sunday (12:07): And so we're really seeing her trying to bear this on her shoulders by herself. And of course she was, again, doing that a little bit in the first season. But I think what's different this time is that she's really nurturing the side of herself that she really doesn't want to by force and backing her into a corner, which we did not see in season one really, not to this extent. And so there's a need and I think a sensitivity there that I was excited to explore, because she really is isolated.

Video (12:42): Growing up, Gideon was my hero. Of all the kids, I was his favorite. But then his mask slipped and I realized he was grooming me to take over for my mom. Everything spiraled so quickly.

(12:58): Look, as long as no one knows your moms at Nevermore, Gideon can't touch her or you.

Caitlin Reilly (13:08): There is a connection that Bianca's having with Ajax, I feel like, this season. I mean, it kind of develops into this alliance, so to speak. What do you think Bianca sees in Ajax?

Joy Sunday (13:21): Well, I think she's so hesitant to call on others for help, that it's so meaningful for somebody to reach out and say, you know what? Even if you don't, I am going to try to help you out anyway. Because it shows Bianca that someone is there for her and not because they're trying to get anything from her, which is something that she's grown up with, right? She's always had her mom is very or has been very transactional for most of her childhood. And being the most popular girl at school is a lot of pressure to... It's an economy almost, right? And so Ajax is just lending his hand and saying, "I want to help out. I don't know exactly what's going on, but I want to be there for you." And that really means a lot in Bianca's world. So I'm excited to see where their friendship goes, just because this is an opportunity for her to really be, especially now that everything's out in the open, for her to be really raw and vulnerable with someone who has expressed that they're going to love her regardless. So that's special.

Caitlin Reilly (14:19): What was the experience like kind of creating that dynamic with Georgie Farmer?

Joy Sunday (14:24): Oh, my gosh, it was amazing. I'm so happy that we got to... our characters, we're so close this season, because he's just like Ajax in a lot of ways, he's just such a great person to lean on. And it was easy to grow this connection between Bianca and Ajax because that's naturally what's there. He's just really such a sweet, sweet guy, and I'm grateful and honored that I got to be opposite him so much this season.

Caitlin Reilly (14:52): I wanted to touch on Bianca's complex relationship with her mom. I mean, her mom is much more present this season, obviously. It's kind of like a reversed parent-child dynamic.

Joy Sunday (15:04): Yeah. I really, in season two, just went more in-depth into Bianca's backstory and history with her mom and how Bianca has had to deal with being, I think the term is parentified, where she becomes responsible for her mom's well-being as opposed to the other way around. Which I think causes her to lash out in other ways, as we saw in season one. But there's also this opportunity for that to be redeemed. And I'm really excited, moving forward, how this freedom and newfound liberation, what side of Bianca that brings out because, finally, she's kind of able to find the balance between having fun and being herself and building this identity, without having it to be affected or dependent on what's going on with her mom. So yeah, I don't know if I answered your question.

Caitlin Reilly (15:58): You did, girl. You did. I'm here for it. I'm just listening.

Video (16:02): We can't help you unless you start talking to us.

(16:05): Mom, are you okay?

(16:09): You're her daughter?

(16:11): Could I have a word with you both? I think it'll clear everything up. You will drop this investigation, shred any paperwork, and forget you ever met my mother.

Caitlin Reilly (16:31): Part of your performance, which is sort of the heart and soul of Bianca, but then you have the siren aspect of her character. What was that duality like?

Joy Sunday (16:40): It was really troubling because, or at least in this season, every time she's doing it, she's exerting her power, but she's lessening herself. She's chipping away at herself every time she has to siren someone because she's doing it to deceive or doing it to just keep navigating in this prison that she's in for most of the season. And even though I have so much pride as an outcast and I want my peers to feel the same throughout Nevermore, especially in this season it becomes a burden. And that's why I'm so excited to see where it goes, because now she gets to step into her power and allow it to empower her.

Caitlin Reilly (17:25): Right. Maybe use it in different ways.

Joy Sunday (17:27): Use it in different ways.

Caitlin Reilly (17:28): That could be for good. Right.

Joy Sunday (17:30): Exactly. Exactly.

Caitlin Reilly (17:30): Another thing I wanted to ask is the contacts, do they hurt?

Joy Sunday (17:36): Oh, the contacts. They don't hurt, but they are fun to wear because I don't have peripheral vision in them. And so it's pretty much just like if I'm wearing them, for example, I can't see anything over there, so I can't see the camera.

Caitlin Reilly (17:52): No way.

Joy Sunday (17:53): But they are prescription, so could at least see very clearly because of me.

Caitlin Reilly (17:57): I'm a contacts wearer, and I would think to myself, if I had to do that, I'd be SOL, but I guess not.

Joy Sunday (18:02): They didn't hurt too much. I think, thankfully, my eyes are a good shape for contacts, I think I've been told.

Caitlin Reilly (18:08): Okay, brag.

Joy Sunday (18:08): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (18:09): Sorry.

Joy Sunday (18:11): Yeah, no, they were fairly comfortable, they just were a little bit hazardous perhaps.

Caitlin Reilly (18:17): Sure, of course.

Joy Sunday (18:17): Especially at night.

Caitlin Reilly (18:18): Half vision, of course.

Video (18:20): Principal Dort was so excited you accepted the gala chair, he wanted me to bring these straight over. It's a list of potential donors.

(18:29): Needless to say, my daughter is not happy that I'm staying.

(18:33): Well, is Wednesday ever happy about anything? She's lucky to have a mom who's so concerned about her.

(18:41): You and your mother aren't close?

(18:45): We spent time together this summer digging out from under all her decisions.

(18:54): Perhaps that's why the spirits have brought us together. I understand that need to prove yourself.

Caitlin Reilly (19:00): What was it like to work with Catherine Zeta-Jones mostly this season? I mean, talk about icons.

Joy Sunday (19:06): Catherine Zeta-Jones is the reason I'm an actress, first of all.

Caitlin Reilly (19:10): Girl, yes.

Joy Sunday (19:11): Because when I was 10 years old, I sat and watched Chicago on my family's desktop, and I was just-

Caitlin Reilly (19:22): We just held space for Chicago, by the way.

Joy Sunday (19:24): Oh, yes. 

Caitlin Reilly (19:24): We just held space for Chicago. Okay. Go ahead.

Joy Sunday (19:29): I was transfixed with her. And then to learn that we're twins, we have the same birthday.

Caitlin Reilly (19:37): Stop. What's your sign?

Joy Sunday (19:38): It was meant to be. Libra.

Caitlin Reilly (19:40): Shut. I love Libras.

Joy Sunday (19:42): I love Catherine Zeta-Jones. So it was just to know that I was going to be on the show with her, I melted. I melted.

Caitlin Reilly (19:51): I dream.

Joy Sunday (19:52): I melted. And then this season, getting to work so closely with her and build a relationship, she literally says, as Morticia, I think she says, "I'm so proud of you." And in that…

Joy Sunday (20:03): I think she says, "I'm so proud of you." And in that moment, I'm just, “She's Catherine. She's not Morticia right now.”

Caitlin Reilly (20:07): Right. She's talking to Joy.

Joy Sunday (20:08): She's Catherine speaking to Joy.

Caitlin Reilly (20:10): Yes, of course.

Joy Sunday (20:11): And so, that smile is just joy.

Caitlin Reilly (20:14): God. I could tell. I could tell.

Joy Sunday (20:15): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (20:17): Joy.

Joy Sunday (20:18): Caitlin.

Caitlin Reilly (20:19): It was a joy to have you.

Joy Sunday (20:21): It was... I can't-lin believe.

Caitlin Reilly (20:25): I  like where we're we're going with this. I cannot wait to see where Bianca goes. And it was so lovely talking to you.

Joy Sunday (20:32): Thank you. Yes. Thank you so much for chatting.

Bianca Barclay (20:35): I've always admired your mom, how she built Frump Mortuaries into one of the most successful outcast-owned businesses in the country. I'd love to do something like that.

Morticia Addams (20:46): Mama was always better with the debt than she was the living.

Bianca Barclay (20:50): Well, I think Principal Dort was hoping you would reach out to her for a large donation.

Morticia Addams (20:58): The last poor soul who asked my mom for a donation died of fright. She sent him home in a casket along with the bill. Cookie?

Bianca Barclay (21:11): I shouldn't.

Caitlin Reilly (21:18): I am delighted to now introduce the visual effects wizard of Wednesday, Season Two, Tom Turnbull.

(21:27): Tom, thank you so much for being here with me.

Tom Turnbull (21:30): Well, thank you for having me here.

Caitlin Reilly (21:32): Now, this season specifically, what has been your favorite piece of visual effects to design or create? What have you had most fun with?

Tom Turnbull (21:41): I think, probably, the crow sequences have been the most fun, because there's so much we have to do with them. And we would shoot scenes and there would be... a lot of the action, or the actor action, would be there. But then we would have to get involved in completing the scene. So all of the pieces of the crow shots and the crow action that weren't covered by the main unit, we got very involved in that.

(22:09): So it's a very engaging part of the show for us. And I think that was the most fun because you're really filmmaking at that point. You're not just painting out some wires here and there.

Caitlin Reilly (22:22): Right.

Tom Turnbull (22:22): You're actually telling the story.

(22:26): They're onto me. If I don't make it, the evidence is safe at the bullpen.

Caitlin Reilly (22:43): I wanted to talk about the final confrontation in Episode Four, between Tyler and Wednesday. I wanted to talk about the visual effects work that went into that sequence.

Tom Turnbull (22:54): First of all, whenever we're dealing with the creature of Hyde, it is always a bit of a challenge, because he is such a large creature in the room. And when we shoot the scenes, we have to be able to shoot them in a way that everybody kind of understands how much space he takes up, how far he can reach. And we would go through a series of visual aids to help everybody understand what it was they were shooting.

(23:22): So one of the things... We would have an actor who would stand in... usually a stunt person... stand in and perform the role of Hyde, and that would help with the lining up the cameras and things. But Hyde is so much bigger than that person. So we'd also have to have a mock-up of Hyde that we would bring out on set to... "Well, here's how tall he is," and all of that kind of business.

(23:45): And then we would have to find ways for him to interact with whatever it is he has to interact with. Whether he's bashing down... And he's running down the corridor, he is going to knock over the gurney. We have to make sure that that's done in a way that we can do a practical component of that, that will marry up with the 3D version later on.

(24:08): So there's a lot of working with special effects on that, to try and make those type of interactive moments really work. And the same with stunts when we have to deal with actors. If he has to pick up an actor and toss them aside, we have to have a way to make that work in a way that makes sense for the creature. So it's actually quite challenging to get all of that to come together. And when it does, though, it's quite satisfying.

Wednesday Addams (24:39): You were right. I was attracted to you. But you do know there's only one way we can truly be together. Say hello to your new master.

Morticia Addams (24:49):  We had a deal.

Caitlin Reilly (25:09): You've also been working with Scanline Visual Effects and Eyeline Studios to help bring these amazing characters to life. And in particular, Christopher Lloyd and Orloff. Talk us through the design and execution of those visual effects.

Tom Turnbull (25:25): It's a very cutting-edge technology. When it was proposed that we wanted to put Christopher Lloyd's head in a jar, it's a technique that I was aware of. I had never done it before. I did some research into it. I found that there was really only two places in the world that were able to sort of do it.

Caitlin Reilly (25:48): Oh, wow.

Tom Turnbull (25:49): Scanline. That's one of the places. They're in Los Angeles, so that worked out well with Christopher Lloyd, who lives there. The technology of scanning actors has been around for a long time... many years now. But the whole idea of volumetric capture in real time is: you're not just capturing the actor once... which is pretty large data set just for a single frame of a good scan of an actor... is having to capture the actor's performance every frame. And then you have to process all of those. So it becomes a very, very large task very quickly.

Caitlin Reilly (26:22): Does it sort of feel like you're doing math or science, or does it feel more like fluid, creative problem solving?

Tom Turnbull (26:31): It's a bit of all of that. I mean, visual effects is incredibly multidisciplinary, and you can come at it from different areas of expertise. And it's all useful. Everything is always new on some level, and there's some twist to it that you have to figure out.

Caitlin Reilly (26:49): Right.

Tom Turnbull (26:50): And it evolves. The idea you may have had when you went into doing a particular shot is not, maybe, the way you end up doing it at the end, because you learn through the process... and there's other factors that contribute to it, and other creative decisions that get made. You kind of have to roll with it.

Caitlin Reilly (27:08): Tom, thank you so much for speaking with me. That was so brilliant and informative, and I just think you're a genius.

Tom Turnbull (27:16): Well, that's a bit much, but thanks.

Caitlin Reilly (27:23): Thing, do you want to bring in our next guest? Thing, what are you doing? Okay, buddy, do that at home, please.

(27:38): I am now very excited to introduce the director of Episode Five, Angela Robinson. Thank you for being here with me today.

Angela Robinson (27:49): My pleasure.

Caitlin Reilly (27:50): I wanted to talk through you getting involved in Wednesday. What were those first initial conversations? How did you come on board?

Angela Robinson (27:56): I knew Alan Miles, actually, for forever... for a really, really long time. And we'd worked together before. But we'd always wanted to work together again, but we never were available at the same time. They were always doing something, or I was doing something, and they'd call me. And so this summer... last summer when we shot worked out. And so they gave me a call and they were like, "There are these two episodes, Episodes Five and Six, that we think you'd be amazing for." And I had an opening in my schedule, so I said, “Let's do it.”

Caitlin Reilly (28:26): What was it like collaborating with them on this part of the story?

Angela Robinson (28:31): Oh, it was so fun. We first met to discuss the episodes, and they said, since it's going to be in two parts, basically, that this was almost the launch episode for the second half of the season.

Caitlin Reilly (28:46): Yes, it is.

Angela Robinson (28:46): So that they were going to leave things with this exciting cliffhanger at the end of Episode Four, and that Five was kind of launching anew. So that we were picking up with Wednesday after her big accident, and all sorts of exciting things were going to start coming and gearing up. And what was so exciting is that they were like, this season was going to be really bigger and bolder, and it was such an ambitious season... and so there were all these threads. But I really love, in Episode Five, that you're kind of picking up and really digging into the stories that emerge in this latter half of the season.

Pugsley Addams (29:28): I raised Slurp from the dead. He's my responsibility. And I know if they find him, they'll probably put him down for good.

Gomez Addams (29:39): What about this? What about if I help you track your zombie? We'll make it a father-son adventure.

Pugsley Addams (29:48): Yeah.

Gomez Addams (29:48): Yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (29:50): I wanted to talk about Pugsley and Gomez.

Angela Robinson (29:53): Yes.

Caitlin Reilly (29:54): Pugsley and Gomez are on this journey. They're trying to find Slurp, which-

Angela Robinson (29:58): Yes.

Caitlin Reilly (29:58): ... results in this wonderfully gruesome moment at Pilgrim World.

Caitlin Reilly (30:03): Wonderfully gruesome moment at Pilgrim World. Please talk us through incorporating those zombie tropes into the direction. Did you have any influences that you drew from for this scene?

Angela Robinson (30:13): I did actually. I mean, I have to, the entire production design team, just, was incredible…

Caitlin Reilly (30:23): Knocked it out of the park.

Angela Robinson (30:25): Knocked it out of the park with the Pilgrim World.

Caitlin Reilly (30:26): It just looks like so much fun.

Angela Robinson (30:28): I remember walking onto that set and I was just blown away. Even the little lollipops were ghoulish lollipops in every detail, and they put so much into creating, recreating Pilgrim World into this incredible day of the dead experience. The influences, I actually had Jaws as an influence in that piece, where I wanted it to feel like Slurp was parting through a sea of unsuspecting swimmers in a way, like in the way that Jaws' fin basically. So, I really wanted that sense of festiveness and he's just cutting through it, looking for lunch basically.

Caitlin Reilly (31:20): Yeah.

Owen Painter (31:33): Pugsley, stop.

Isaac Ordonez (31:33): You can talk, and you look human. Well, almost.

Owen Painter (31:47): The brains, they brought me back.

Luyanda Unati Lewis-Nyawo (31:52): Go, go, go, go, go, go. Go, go, go, go. This is the Sheriff's department. Whoever's in there come out with their hands over your head.

Owen Painter (32:03): You've given me a second chance at life, I don't want to waste it. You're my only friend Pugsley. Let me go. Please.

Caitlin Reilly (32:15): There's almost a tender moment between Pugsley and Slurp. How is it trying to direct something so sincere and moving when it's a zombie in full garb talking to another human. How do you keep that so grounded?

Angela Robinson (32:33): Well, that's the incredible thing about the show, is that it's this fantastical world and a fantastical premise, but all of the storylines are very grounded and have to do with heart and family and finding yourself. Even if they're monsters, has a story to reveal, and this moment between Pugsley and Slurp, he's been this zombie, zombie the whole time, and this is the first time we reveal and Pugsley sees his humanity quite literally. And Owen really, like all of the actors, play the true emotion very sincerely, and that tension between the style of the show, the comedy, the drama, and then that purity of intention really, I think is why people relate to the characters so much.

Caitlin Reilly (33:31): Now, in episode five, Wednesday, we find out is alive and we also find out that Weems is back and that reveal, I mean the reveal of Weems, her end up being Wednesday's spirit guide. There's this beautiful dream-like sequence that was shot. What was that process? What was it like filming that?

Angela Robinson (33:53): So we went to an actual, we went to shoot in the actual forest, and we cleared out the whole space.

Caitlin Reilly (33:59): Really?

Angela Robinson (34:00): Yes. We were in a forest in the middle of Ireland and they found a clearing and they brought all of the elements from Weems' office, her desk, her furniture, the doorways, and it was just so fun to watch them go. They just, once they're at it, and I talked a lot with Gwendolyn about how she appeared as a spirit guide, like what type of magic, how she was just seen by Wednesday and not by anybody else. And so, Gwendolyn was having so much fun being a spirit, kind of being liberated from the world.

Caitlin Reilly (34:42): It's very freeing, yeah.

Angela Robinson (34:42): Plus she had these incredible outfits, which are…

Caitlin Reilly (34:45): Incredible.

Angela Robinson (34:45): Amazing, yeah.

Caitlin Reilly (34:46): Well, Angela, it was a delight, it was a treat. I loved speaking with you. I feel like I got a master class in badass directing, truly.

Angela Robinson (34:57): Thank you.

Caitlin Reilly (34:57): It was such a joy.

Angela Robinson (34:58): Thanks so much for having me.

Caitlin Reilly (35:04): We are deep into the second half of the season now, and there is so much more to cover. So who is next on the guest list? Emma Myers, AKA Enid Sinclair.

Emma Myers (35:17): A girl can do what she wants, but tell somebody if you've moved on.

Caitlin Reilly (35:22): Gwendolyn Christie, AKA the spirit guide herself, Larissa Weems.

Gwendoline Christie (35:26): I no way, had I planned any sort of particular emotion for that scene, but I cried.

Caitlin Reilly (35:34): Plus Al and Miles are back to breakdown episode six. And trust me, you are going to love it.

Alfred Gough (35:41): She has incredible eyes.

Caitlin Reilly (35:43): Yes.

Alfred Gough (35:44): It's just like those eyes, and she has this look where it's like she's sweet, but clearly deranged.

Caitlin Reilly (35:49): That's coming up on the next Wednesday season two, official Woecast. I'm Caitlin Reilly. See you next time my precious piranhas.